Questions and answers from town supervisor, spokesman for Muslim group
Sheikh Abdul Kerim prays after a burial is complete at the Muslim cemetery in Sidney.Last week, the national media discovered the town of Sidney. Officials of the Delaware County community recently told Osmanli Naksibendi Hakkani Dergahi — an Islamic spiritual center — to dig up two graves and stop future burials in a cemetery on its 50-acre property.
The issue quickly became a flashpoint, tethered to public debate over the so-called “Ground Zero mosque” in Manhattan. Within hours, a Huffington Post article generated 1,700 comments. MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann named Sidney Town Supervisor Robert McCarthy “the Worst Person in the World.” Comedy Central’s Stephen Colbert joked about sleeper-cell terror coffins.
By mid-week, the Islamic center had released a 2005 letter from the Sidney town zoning officer, approving the site for a cemetery, plus a copy of the zoning law that also seems to indicate compliance. The town is mulling its options. Hart Seely spoke with two key players in the dispute, McCarthy and Islamic center spokesman Hans Hass:
Robert McCarthy, supervisor, town of Sidney
Robert McCarthyWhat is the town’s concern here?
We have a number of abandoned cemeteries, and they’re mostly from 100 years ago. There are cemeteries that are funded, they take care of themselves. ... When we have an abandoned cemetery, the town has to take it. Not only are we responsible for the upkeep, but the use of the land is affected forever.
As I’ve explained to people, you can’t bury Grandma in the back yard in New Jersey, and you can’t do it here, either. These people came up and just buried a body last November and then another one this summer. They got no permission, no nothing, no contact with the town, they just did this.
Does the town have the legal authority to move those graves?
You’d have to speak to the attorney about that. I’m not an attorney.
Do you have a basic sense of it, though?
If we didn’t think we had a case, we wouldn’t do this.
Have you reached out to the community to settle this?
That would be for an attorney to do, not me.
But you know what I’m saying, right?
I’ve settled a lot of things since I’ve been in office here, but this isn’t — you’re not talking about whether you want to cut down a bush or not.
How are relations between the neighbors and the Muslim community?
I don’t know. Look, it’s not like they’re around. You don’t see them in their garb or anything.
Not a high profile presence?
No. Also, (one online article) said people throw rocks at the house. Look, if you could throw a rock that would hit that house, the Yankees would want you. This is just a lot of baloney.
Some are saying it’s anti-Muslim sentiment. What’s your sense of that?
My sense of it is that if they didn’t bury a body in their yard, I wouldn’t know they were there.
You were named “Worst Person in the World” by Keith Olbermann.
I’ll have to have a Worst Person in the World party.
What do you do at a “Worst Person in the World” party? Get special T-shirts?
I’m 70 years old. I don’t wear t-shirts.
So it’s up to the attorneys?
No one has served them with anything yet. As far as I know, we have not filed any papers, nor have we served them with any ... We verbally at a meeting instructed the town attorney to look into this.
If you send a court-ordered backhoe in there and dig up graves, will you ever be able to restore good relations?
You know, this is the kind of thing where, if you’re breaking the law, you’re breaking the law. If you’re trying to do this on the backs of the local taxpayers, your relations aren’t very good anyway. You know, if people come in and mind their own business and do things to help the community, no matter who they are, people will like them.
When will it be decided? Any idea?
Somebody from (Associated Press) asked me that question. I said, “Have you ever dealt with an attorney?”
Hans Hass, spokesman, Osmanli Naksibendi Hakkani Dergahi
The town supervisor says the issue is simple: You didn’t get a permit for a cemetery.
Hans HassMr. McCarthy doesn’t know his own zoning law. He doesn’t know his job.
...I went to the last (town board) meeting, and I confronted him, after they had voted to file this lawsuit. I showed him the law. I said, this is the town of Sidney zoning law. He didn’t want to look at it. He kept saying, “I’m not a lawyer, I don’t know.” He kept saying, “You’ll have to talk to the town attorney,” who hasn’t responded to our lawyers, he hasn’t responded to anyone.
Why do you think this issue has come to the forefront?
Because of the times, because of all the other issues going on out there, with the so-called Ground Zero mosque. A lot of public officials seem to think they can openly disparage Islam — that it’s OK to do so. I think they’re giving cues to local officials to basically do whatever you can. I think outside people have kind of put him up to this, to push this. The town board went along, and I don’t know why.
What makes you think outsiders swayed him?
It’s just an impression. I’ve heard things. I can’t prove anything. ... They claim they’re doing this because one day (the cemetery) could be a liability to the town, which is just ridiculous. I mean, this town is full of present-day liabilities: abandoned houses, septic systems leaching into the water table — you name it, everything — and they’re afraid that one day we might abandon this, and they’ll have to cut the grass three times a year? That’s why they’re doing this? It’s absurd. No one believes them.
The center has been in Sidney for eight years. How have relations been?
We have generally good relations with people around here. We’re part of this community. I’m a member of the local EMS squad. Other members of our community are in the fire department. We’re part of this town.
There’s a small minority that just doesn’t like us, because we’re Muslim. We’ve had people drive by and yell things, throw rocks or throw trash. Someone shot our dog one time. We expect that kind of thing from some people. ... But we never expected it from the town government.
Have you received any formal papers from the town?
No, but he’s insisting they’re going to pursue it. They did vote unanimously to file a lawsuit. The town attorney was there at the August meeting, and he said, well, there was some real estate law that says something about having a mortgage on a property, and so forth. We just spoke to our lawyer, and he said there’s no problem. ... They’re making this out of nothing.
Are you steeling yourself for a court fight?
No. We’re not worried about this at all. In fact, the only question is how much taxpayer money they’re going to waste before they lose. We’ve done everything legally. I set up the cemetery myself in 2005. We went to the code enforcement official, who McCarthy refuses to talk to. I brought him out to the property.
... He showed me the zoning law, and it said if you have 15 acres, you can have a cemetery on it. We have 50 acres. He wrote a letter saying this is an approved use and
he stamped it. I’ve been showing it to reporters.
Is the cemetery there to stay?
It’s not going anywhere.
How does this get settled?
We’re hoping it will be settled. All they have to do is admit they made a mistake and drop it. We’ve gotten calls from lawyers and civil rights groups who say they’re willing to take up a civil rights case against the town, if we want. And we could do it. We know we’ve got a case. This is clearly harassment.
What happens next?
I don’t know. They’re stonewalling. They’re not saying they’re dropping anything. We’ll go to the next town meeting and see what happens. I imagine there will be lots of press there. ... A lot of people are upset about this. It’s not good for anybody. I mean, no one wins in this.
I live in Sidney too. I don’t want to see the town look like a bunch of bigoted jerks. And all across the country, that’s what people are saying.